Rant on romance in FMA

[dragonimp]

I'm thinking Arakawa shouldn't tackle romance. The only ones that work are the ones that happened in the past - meaning we see the happy couple, not what led up to it. Trisha/Hohenheim, Izumi/Sig, Maes/Gracia - and Roy/Maes. The ones she's trying to do within the series - eehhhh.

I'm not saying this because I'm anti EdWin - most people have relationships that aren't good for them, teenagers are notorious for it - or anti Royai. Both of those would have been perfectly fine, except that she's mangled the characters in favor of the 'ship. I buy Winry's feelings for Ed, but Ed, damn it, falls out of character every time his supposed "feelings" show up, right from the first "Oh, she's cute when she's submissive" moment. Plus, whenever he comforts Winry, a prime moment to showcase hidden feelings, it's damn near identical to how he comforts Al. Which tells me that the affection he feels for Winry is more brotherly than anything else.

Royai gets a double blow. Roy treats her no differently than his other subordinates, which is actually a shame considering how long they've known each other. There's been no hint of deeper feelings on Roy's side, unless you also want to admit (even stronger) evidence for Roy/Havoc and - of course - Roy/Maes. Riza, poor thing, falls out of character and completely loses her edge, the prime example being her giving up once Lust tells her Roy is dead. The fact that the Royai shippers have been even worse than the yaoi shippers for reading in subtext every time they have two seconds together in a panel is pretty telling.

The only ongoing romance I can think of that's believable is Ross/Broche, and I'm starting to think it's because we don't ever see them.

Okay. Rant over.

Comments

[greedy-lover.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Well I like Roy/Riza but yeah >< (though that fan that can't find any roy/riza doujin? well they have most of the fandom too but are mad about that? >_>) There are some bad yaoi fans and the bad het fans and they should all be sent to a corner of the fandom together XD My thing is, it was also in that fma meme. the fan is an Ed/Win one bbut said this: (well as close to as he can)

ED PROMISED AL THAT AL COULD EAT WINRY'S APPLE PIE! ED SAID NOTHING ABOUT HIMSELF! DON"T READ INTO EVERYTHING

And I'm an Ed/in shipper

I found that amusing XDD But it's true :/

We weren't all screaming how Roy said ED instead of fullmetal when Ed disappeared yet refered to Riza by her rank when her neck was cut.

Until Roy and Riza and Ed/Win are actually couples, it's fanon to me, CAUSE IT DID/.HAS NOT HAPPENED and that's what some of the het fans need to realize

Dited: the face I have no tears about Ed/WIn as you know XD

[dragonimp.livejournal.com]

The best we can say about canon is that there's some one-sided Winry/Ed, and some one-sided (though poorly done) Riza/Roy. That certainly does not a couple make. At least most yaoi shippers realize their 'ship isn't canon know when they're reading into things (most ^^; like you said, there are annoying fans in every subset).

I realized my like of Roy/Riza came from the (first) anime. The manga kinda soured me with the way Riza loses her edge, and then the rabid Royai fans finished the job. I still have a fondness for post-anime Roy/Riza (and Roy/Riza/Ed) - but not from the manga.

[greedy-lover.livejournal.com]

Exactly. In the manga, when either said couple are in a scene together, it's so mushy and that is just so out of place, well unless it's Hughes and Gracia. If they would be mushy at the end, yes I can see it but not when it's shoved down our throats either

My ship is only canon to me in my head XD But yes, while there are het hints, that's all there are, hints.

[priestess-grrrl.livejournal.com]

Total agreement here. I'm generally against romance in shonen shows as a rule. It just doesn't work. No one really wants to see it: not us, not the 15 year old Japanese boys for whom the genre is written. It's much more interesting when it's left in the OST/subtext stage. Once they go there, it's just boring IMHO. If you want to write romance, go do shojo. That genre is made for it. Don't try to force it in where it doesn't belong.

Also, I have an especially hard time when a show starts off as gen, and the fandom goes on for years and years like that, and then all of a sudden out of nowhere at the end of the series, there's all this shipping crap. That happened with Kenshin, too, and it was so bad I actually left that fandom and never finished the manga (the fact that they apparently used the 3rd series of the anime to wipe their asses didn't help, either). It's totally unfair to yaoi fans, who think they are safe with a gen show to take it in any direction they like, only to be forcefully heteronormalized for no apparent reason at the end (e.g. JKR - don't even get me started on that).

I mean, I wouldn't have so much of a problem if it weren't done so stupidly. Did we really need Edward spewing coffee all over himself like a total idiot when Riza asked him if he liked Winry? I mean, I didn't mind like FMR was saying earlier, the scene in the first anime where Riza's cutting up apples. That was fine. And I was even fine with Riza getting really upset and calling Roy by name when she finds him all shot to hell by Archer. That made sense; anyone might have flipped out like that. But to have her go suicidal...? Was that really necessary?

Plus, there are just so many better ways she could have gone if she REALLY wanted to go there with Royai. Like for example if Riza had been legitimately suicidal, not because OMGIHEARTROY, but because of her guilt over Ishbal. And if the two of them had bonded over their shared guilt and angst, like with HughesxRoy. That would have been totally believable. Obviously I like HughesxRoy better since I'm a yaoi fangirl, but I could see Royai if it were written like that. Or, if it were like RoyxEd, where they both feel like they're too screwed up to ever fall in love, or not worthy to receive love.

But the way she has it set up, it's so much better if she just leaves it up to the imagination. That way we can go there with RoyxEd, they can go there with Royai or EdWin or whatever, and we can all go home happy. But why throw in this half-baked crap at the last minute? It's just really disappointing.

[greedy-lover.livejournal.com]

What pissed me off about Harry Potter is how out of nowhere Harry and Ginny are OMG SO IN LOVE even though they had like no feelings revealed! I know you like Harry/Draco, I love Harry/Luna. Harry had more feelings and emotions with them then Ginny. Good grief, there was more Harry/Herm and Harry/Ron then there was Harry/Ginny which is why I'm annoyed. If she had to go het, it would have been much better and made more sense if she went with Harry/Luna, they seemed more like a couple then Harry/Ginny ever did. Harry even spent more time with SNAPE. So the Harry/Ginny was WTF to me >_>

I like Ginny, just not Harry/Ginny cause there was never scenes of it, you know?

[dragonimp.livejournal.com]

Ug, Rowling - teenage romance does not usually last your whole goddam life >_< and even teenage crushes need some leadup!!

Anyway.
Romance can work in a shounen series, but except for things like harem plots it really shouldn't be showcased. Pulling the developing romances out of an action series like FMA is not going to detract from it at all. But if it has to be in there - at least let the characters dictate the ship, not the other way around. Like with Riza, having her empty her guns into Lust and then, I dunno, attack with her bare hands would have made much more sense. It's still more or less a suicidal move and still Riza losing her mind, but it's active, and more importantly, it's strong.

I would also have an easier time with Royai if there was some hint of feeling from Roy, but there isn't. I guess men don't do romance. Or Roy's secretly gay.

[nochick-fics.livejournal.com]

Well fucking said, dear. I agree completely.

As much as I do not care for Royai, the thing with Riza's characterization is really one of the most disappointing aspects in the whole debacle. Because she really is such an amazing female character... until she morphs into the type that I generally want to punt into next week. And, truly, IF Roy bothered showing the woman even a hint of an iota of something more than he shows just anyone else, then I would buy it. But it's JUST NOT THERE. How any Royai fan can realistically claim otherwise is beyond me.

[binaryalchemist.livejournal.com]

Ditto, darlin'. I read that chapter and all I thought was, "LIEUTENANT!" Shit, if he can't call you Riza when she's had her throat cut for you...you obviously ain't beatin' off with her gun polish, if you know what I mean...
Where on the other hand "MAES!!" and even "HAVOC!"
And of course....let us not forget Ed's little remark, "Bring it, BITCH!" Not "asshole". Not "bastard". Nope. Ed called Roy a bitch. God, I loved that!
"Hey bitch. make me a sandwich!" ::snickers madly::

[dragonimp.livejournal.com]

It's going to be interesting to see how Viz translates the "Bring it, bitch!" line. How do they deal with "Colonel Shit"? I need to find a place where Ed says that and then compare the scanlation to the official manga.

[dragonimp.livejournal.com]

Yeah - if it weren't for the character assassination, it would just be "okay, I can see they're going to get together, but a few months down the road she'll get sick of his lazy ass and kick him to the curb." Which is more or less my head-canon for EdWin.

Except, of course, the guys just don't seem to be feeling it - I'm starting to think Roy's secretly gay and Ed's hormones don't work.

[priestess-grrrl.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking Roy being secretly gay and Ed's [male/female] hormones not working have a lot to do with one another... ^_~

[dragonimp.livejournal.com]

They probably do XD. Roy's gay vibes interfered with the development of Ed's hormones. (Wow, crack!plot)

[auragirl.livejournal.com]

oh WORD.

What you're seeing, I think, is just painfully typical of Japanese media. They may show themselves more liberal/progressive about various issues (nudity, violence, sex, religion, etc) but when it comes to relationships? It's the very, very rare Japanese author who doesn't conceive of romantic relationships being written in stone, in very, VERY solid boxes. It's just how Japanese society works, and it's incredibly alien (and uncomfortable) for them to try and make a character that breaks free of those norms for real.

TL;DR, in summary? The second Royai happens in canon, Roy will be the Man and Riza will be the Woman. And yes that means Riza's character in particular will be assassinated to make her fit into the "woman" box.

[dragonimp.livejournal.com]

I was kinda figuring that a lot of my annoyance comes down to a difference of culture. But still, I'm not bothered so much by them falling into a type - they already act like a stereotypical manga couple, both Royai and EdWin - it's the break in character, and the lack of feeling from the guys. Riza could still be the "woman" in her relationship with Roy, without moments like her losing the will to fight because she thinks Roy's been killed. And Roy could show some feeling - given how long they've known each other, he should treat her differently than his other subordinates, at least on occasion (like when her throat was slashed), but he doesn't. He calls out "Lieutenant!" Whereas he called out "Havoc!" several times after Havoc was run through.

So, anyway, I think it's not the stereotypes that are bothering me, so much as what she's doing to fit them into the stereotypes.

[priestess-grrrl.livejournal.com]

wow, I've never heard that particular perspective before. I always figured it was just the idiocy of stupid American fans that ruined it for me. It must be hugely liberating for yaoi mangaka to write what they want to write, then (and sort of explains the propensity for set in stone seme/uke roles).

But yeah, that's exactly what I dislike about Royai: it makes Roy The Man and Riza The Woman. If I wanted to read that, I'd go get a Harlequin novel. It would be much more interesting if, say, Riza were secretly transgendered, and Roy had been keeping her secret all this time, and she was in love with him but thought he was straight, and he was in love with her but didn't want her to feel like he was taking advantage... (wait, that's just RoyxEd with a twist... guess I'm a broken record LOL)

[dragonimp.livejournal.com]

... The Gate sends Ed back in time and changes his sex, and then --

-- I better stop. ^^;;