On feminist/feminism

[dragonimp]

Okay, I've run into this opinion a number of times now, and it bugs me. It is:

A man can't be a feminist. He can be a feminist ally, but not a feminist.

I guess the semantics are really important to some people, but I never thought it was a gendered term. This is the dictionary.com definition of feminist:

1. advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men.

2. an advocate of such rights.

And for feminism:

1. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
2. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) an organized movement for the attainment of such rights for women.
3. feminine character.

Nothing in that says you can't have a Y chromosome.

I'm sure there's a lot of men who don't "get it", but I'd say they're not truly feminists. For the ones who do get it - why kick them out of the club, as it were? Why reduce them to the secondary status of "ally"?

I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on this.

Comments

I'm not terribly good with words, but hopefully this makes sense.

[(Anonymous)]

I most certainly think men can be feminists. It bothers me when I hear someone say otherwise. Perhaps I just have slightly differing views on what feminism means, but I feel that it encompasses a variety of things and overlaps with several different movements, such as the fight for equal rights for trans individuals and the fight for acceptance of members of the lgbtqqia* community. Due to the various factors in those movements that, I feel, intertwine with the ideals of feminism, it simply makes no sense to me to exclude men from being feminists due only to their being men.

*I truly wish there was a way to make that "name" sound shorter. It's certainly a mouthful.

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Unrelated, but I wanted to express my appreciation for all of your stories. I'm not one to comment much as I often don't know what to say, but I enjoy reading your updates very much. I was hooked from the moment I first started reading the mother arc. The characterization is spot on.

Re: I'm not terribly good with words, but hopefully this makes sense.

[dragonimp]

I always thought being a feminist just meant you thought women and men should be treated equally. If a man thinks that - why not call him a feminist? I've seen the argument that men can't speak to feminist issues because they haven't experience them, and okay, fair enough, but that's not what the term means. Somehow people don't realize that all they're doing is segregating themselves more.
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And thanks! ^_^ glad to have you along.

[nochick_fics]

I've heard similar arguments towards bisexuality. You know, because we can CHOOSE to be with the opposite sex, so on so forth, so we don't really count in the big ol' queer family. *eyeroll*

I think the true nature of equality escapes some people. But if we are truly equal, we make no distinction whatsoever in the things that separate us. Such a simple yet seemingly unobtainable concept.

Everywhere I turn anymore, it's an "us and them" situation like the one you describe. And it makes me sad. And kind of sick.

ETA: Fuck yes, men can be feminists. I know some who would make a hell of a lot better one than yours truly. >.>

[dragonimp]

That's what really gets me, it undermines the whole point of wanting equal treatment and equal rights. I've seen people get really snippy about terms like "actress" because it separates female from male actors, but then I turn around and see this "men can't be feminists" BS. It's like, "We want equality so badly we're going to give men second-class status in our movement!" Er....

I've also seen the distinction made between "gay rights advocates" and "gay rights allies" (can't we all just be pro equal rights without the semantics?) but I stay out of that one because someone is bound to scream "straight privilege!" at me.

[straightcougar]

*joins you in that particulair eyeroll* My favorate one in that regard is that we are just basically attention seeking sluts who can't make up there minds. It doesnt help that every other girl says she's bi-sexual at some point because she thinks that will make her hot.

[straightcougar]

Segregating men definatly defeats the purpose. The people who feel the need to do that are really just trying to put themselves on a pedestal and are as about as conserned about equality as a beaver is concerned about politics.

[dragonimp]

I sort of feel like "You're the ones giving the rest of us a bad name" when it comes to that. Unfortunately it's the internet and saying so is likely to get you jumped on -_-;;